Common sense cannibalism

The following is a direct quote from the all so loving and wise Jesus.

St. John

6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

As it should offend any person with a dab of common sense, even to partake of communion is pretending to eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood.

Even after Christians claim that the Bible is the infallible absolute word of god, they will say that, that particular saying is to be taken metaphorical or allegorical, then if so, then all of the Bible is to be taken as metaphorical or allegorical and not to be taken as literal truth, but there is nowhere in the Bible that it says anything is to be taken metaphorical or allegorical.

Unless a christain is willing to admit that he/she is willing to eat the flesh of a human being and drink their blood in order to go to heaven , there is no truth in them!

Are you more willing to be known as a cannibal, as opposed to being called a christian? Yes you are!

Then you are a disgrace to humanity!

After all is said and done, do you really believe there exists a god that wants people to eat his son's dead body?

Are you really this gullible and ignorant?

Are you really so desperate to believe in something so outlandishly barbaric beyond human sanity???

80 comments:

Corey Bishop said...

I'll try to spell it out for you. If I tell a person with a broken foot to take 4 Ibuprofen every 4 hours, that doesn't mean you (who does not have a broken foot) to take Ibuprofen too. That's how you take the Bible metaphorically...... If it's not talking to us, we as Christians usually try to apply it to us because it can help us in some way. But when the Bible is talking directly to us, you take it like it says it. That's what it means in 2 Tim 3:16..... You have to rightly divide it. But of course, knowing you, you will not ever be smart enough to comprehend it :)

Steven Bently said...

Where does it say that in John 6:53???

waiting!

Steven Bently said...

To even pretend to eat human flesh is out of human character of mental sanity!

Steven Bently said...

Then you have to run over to Timothy to get verification for your insanity...what a fucking fool you are!!!

Corey Bishop said...

It's called rightly dividing... You have to run over to Timothy to cross reference. The whole Bible is like that.

Steven Bently said...

No, you're the one who never address any of my topics, such as why do you pretend to eat a human being and drink his blood?

I have already told you that I know how people and animals got here, the DNA was all transported here by aliens from another planet, yet your bible writers knew nothing about other planets, remember they knew nothing about diseases, nor anything else, just like you, but you don't remember do you?

So now address to me why you pretend to eat another human beings flesh and drink his blood???

Steven Bently said...

I also want to know why you're afraid of invisible beings???

JayBird said...

"No, you're the one who never address any of my topics"

They are Your posts...I'm just a visitor.




"such as why do you pretend to eat a human being and drink his blood?"


What are you talking about? Roman Catholicism teaches this...


"the DNA was all transported here by aliens from another planet"

Okay, but that is as unprovable as anything else? So, why the ridicule?

...by the way, where did those aliens come from?



"I also want to know why you're afraid of invisible beings???"

When have I ever said this? I'm not afraid of invisible beings. God is all-powerful; what do I have to fear?

Steven Bently said...

LOL

Steven Bently said...

If you were not afraid of invisible beings, you would not worship them!

JayBird said...

"LOL"

Cat got your tongue?



"If you were not afraid of invisible beings, you would not worship them!"

Worship is an act out of humility.



...by the way, where did those aliens come from?

Why do you believe in something you can't prove or see?

Steven Bently said...

The odds of there being Alien life out in space is over 125 billion to one odds of the existence of other life existing than the zero to one odds that your bible god and jebus exists, therefore I believe in what is more plausible, to believe, than the garbage that you want to believe in and without any proof and by using faith.

But you don't believe other galaxies exists because you still think the earth is the center of the universe and that diseases are caused by demons and witches and that the heart is the center of all thought and emotion.

JayBird said...

"The odds of there being Alien life out in space is over 125 billion to one"

So, that is a Yes, you do believe in something you can't prove. It is a guess rather than evidence. You have not One Shred of evidence that aliens or, much less, one single alien ever existed. Nor can you prove that this alien that you don't know nor ever see dropped off DNA on our planet.

Where did the DNA come from?

Did the aliens make it?

Why was the Earth here already?

Who made that?

Would that be Intelligent Design?



"therefore I believe in what is more plausible, to believe"

You want to believe what you are more comfortable with...but that would make it true.



"zero to one odds that your bible god and jebus exists"

Most historians believe that Jesus existed.


"But you don't believe other galaxies exists because you still think the earth is the center of the universe"

when did I say this? I believe there are other solar systems in our universe.



"the heart is the center of all thought and emotion."

I've repeatedly told you that Bible refers to the "mind" (Rev. 17:9). The Bible refers to the "heart" the same way Americans (including you)refer to emotion. For example, "My heart isn't in it".

Steven Bently said...

Who made the pyramids? We don't know...duh

Who makes the crop circles? We don't know...duh

Where did DNA come from? We don't know...duh

Where do the Aliens come from? We don't know...duh

If you believe the bible, then you have to believe that the earth is the center of the universe and that the heart is the center of all thought and emotion and that donkeys, snakes, a burning bush, can talk, otherwise you're a liar!!!

You also must believe that you can drink poison and handle poisonous snakes and it will not hurt you!

To believe different would make you out to be a liar!!!

You believe in other galaxies, but you cannot prove that a single one exists!!!

Why do you believe in other galaxies???

You sound like an atheist! You might as well be one, you have no proof of anything!!!

If you do not believe in Allah, or Zeus, Vishnu, Mertha, Thor, then you are an atheist to those gods.

Then by definition, you are in fact an Atheist!!!

JayBird said...

"Who made the pyramids? We don't know...duh"

Humans


"Who makes the crop circles? We don't know...duh"

Humans


"Where did DNA come from? We don't know...duh"

Living things which were created by God to reproduce "after there own kind".


"Where do the Aliens come from? We don't know...duh"

Have you seen "Aliens come"?


"If you believe the bible, then you have to believe that the earth is the center of the universe and that the heart is the center of all thought"

No I don't, I've repeatedly told you that Bible refers to the "mind" (Rev. 17:9). The Bible refers to the "heart" the same way Americans (including you)refer to emotion. For example, "My heart isn't in it".



"You believe in other galaxies, but you cannot prove that a single one exists!!! Why do you believe in other galaxies???"

Scientists are able to observe approximately 10,000 galaxies in our universe. What are you talking about?? Do you even know what you are saying?


"You sound like an atheist! You might as well be one, you have no proof of anything!!!"

Sure I can, when you see a painting there is always a painter. If you see creation there is always a Creator.


"Then by definition, you are in fact an Atheist!!!"

By definition, I must only believe in at least one God in order to not be Atheist.

However you believe in Intelligent Design. You believe that an Intelligent Designer, outside of Human, exists and is responsible for the existence of life on Earth. You don't know who this Intelligent Designer is, possibly an alien. But, what is an Alien?

The definition is:
"any being or thing foreign to the environment in which it now exists"

For all you know this "alien" could be "god-like" or God himself. This alien that you Believe in could be the God of the Bible and maybe you just don't know it...I believe it is... But you...you're unsure.

Because you are unsure means that you are not an Atheist. You are either an Agnostic-You're not sure if there is a God or not; or you are a Theist-this alien that is god-like IS actually God.

From this day forward I will no longer refer to you as an Atheist. The information you have given me, and everyone who reads this, can understand that you don't know what Intelligence brought life to this planet.

You don't know who this Intelligent Designer is, but outside of your range of knowledge (which I assure you is large)the Intelligent Designer could be a god or even the God of the Bible.

Steven Bently said...

""Who made the pyramids? We don't know...duh"

Humans (prove it!)


"Who makes the crop circles? We don't know...duh"

Humans (prove it!)


"Where did DNA come from? We don't know...duh"

Living things which were created by God to reproduce "after there own kind". (prove it!)


"Where do the Aliens come from?
(outside of our solar system)



"You don't know who this Intelligent Designer is, but outside of your range of knowledge (which I assure you is large)the Intelligent Designer could be a god or even the God of the Bible."

Could be?

But you're not 100% sure?

Therefore you're an agnostic, not a true god believing christian!!!


"From this day forward I will no longer refer to you as an Atheist. The information you have given me, and everyone who reads this, can understand that you don't know what Intelligence brought life to this planet."

I can assure you, it was no god!!!



You say a god did, the onus is on you to prove a god did, yet you can't!!!

Therefore you have no argument for a god!

That means you have no right to tell anyone that a god exists, because you have no proof!!!

And never have had any proof!!!

Yet you insist to assume a god exists, without any proof!!!

Steven Bently said...

You believe there exists a god that wants you to eat his son's dead body, man are you sick in the head!!!

JayBird said...

"Humans (prove it!"

They are all built in Egypt, for Egyptian burials for their Pharaohs and they are filled with Egyptian goodies... Egyptians built them, genius. What more evidence do you require?



"Humans (prove it!)"

Pranksters admit it and they even hold crop circle making contests. Humans have been caught doing it and aliens never have.



"Living things which were created by God to reproduce "after there own kind". (prove it!)"

You've never asked for proof of the builder who built your house; you know there was one just like you know Creation (including DNA) is always made be a Creator.

Do you believe an alien dropped off your house?


"You believe there exists a god that wants you to eat his son's dead body, man are you sick in the head!!!"

No I don't, Why do you keep insisting that I am Catholic?



"I can assure you, it was no god!!!"

How will you assure me? It appears that you sincerely HOPE aliens exist so that you can dismiss the God who holds you responsible for you actions.




"That means you have no right to tell anyone that a god exists, because you have no proof!!!"

All evidence points to God. Life doesn't happen by accident. You exist and this means that someone created you. You had no choice in the matter; nor did the very first human being.
If you found a painting in the forest resting against a tree you wouldn't question that there was a painter. Creation is all around you, yet you doubt that there was a Creator.


"You say a god did, the onus is on you to prove a god did, yet you can't!!!"

No problem...




"Yet you insist to assume a god exists, without any proof!!!"

Don't you do this with aliens?



"And never have had any proof!!!"

Creation is proof that there is a Creator.


"But you're not 100% sure?"

I'm 100% sure. I wouldn't claim that paintings weren't painted by painters.
So, agian:

"You don't know who this Intelligent Designer is, but outside of your range of knowledge (which I assure you is large)the Intelligent Designer could be a god or even the God of the Bible."

I suggest you write a post explaining all of the information you have for the aliens, you believe in, that came here (did they create the Earth too?) and secretly planted human Deoxyribonucleic acid, that they have been cultivating in their "solar system". (Did they create their solar system? if not where did that come from?)


By the way, I am enjoying your new Intelligent Design Blog. This is interesting stuff; my I.D. believer Agnostic friend... =)

Chatpilot said...

Comparing the complexities of the origins of the universe and life with man made objects is stupid and shows a lack of understanding regarding biology and life. To state that God created everything should be an embarrassment for believers because he has done a piss poor job of it.

There are many flaws in the human anatomy that would actually work better if they were different. Still born children, deformed fetuses etc. Creatures that have features that are of no use to them whatsoever and in some cases even an impediment to their survival as a species.

Why would a creator God create animals and varied life forms that he knew would later go extinct? The greatest argument against your god is the problem of evil. Why would he create a being (Lucifer) knowing that he would rebel and eventually lead angels and man astray?

JayBird said...

"Comparing the complexities of the origins of the universe and life with man made objects is stupid and shows a lack of understanding regarding biology and life."

Understanding biology isn't the problem. The problem is how you and I interpret evidence. To you the evidence points to common ancestors. To me it points to a common Creator.


"To state that God created everything should be an embarrassment for believers because he has done a piss poor job of it."

It isn't embarrassing at all. This isn't the condition it was originally created. Our universe is in a fallen state because of sin. Yet, notice how much calamity there Isn't.


"Still born children, deformed fetuses etc."

Don't forget Abortions...


"The greatest argument against your god is the problem of evil."

Yes, Evil or Sin can be a difficult topic. Humans are born with a sinful nature. Ever notice why parents have to teach children to do good? Why toddlers are always selfish rather than sharing.

People always ask why God allowed sin to affect the world. My question is "why does God allow any good when the world is so evil?"

Chatpilot said...

"This isn't the condition it was originally created. Our universe is in a fallen state because of sin."

That is the most pathetic defense for an imperfect God. God is imperfect because he/she/it are the creations of imperfect man. If you look at God analytically without all the bullshit theological mumbo jumbo you will see God for what he is;a reflection of man. God was "created" in our image not the other way around.

By the way the word sin does not even exist in the secular world. Sin is a word your stupid church made up to refer to all the evil and wrong doing in the world. Ever notice how man is to blame for everything? Yet, your perfect God who knows all things is blameless for being a dumb ass and creating a world he knew was bound to fail?All this tells me is that God is either very stupid or a creation of man.

JayBird said...

"God was "created" in our image not the other way around."

Man couldn't have and wouldn't have created the God of the Bible. Man wouldn't create a God that would condemn him for his wrongs. Rather, man would have created a God that supports all the evil and sinful thoughts and actions that we do naturally; but the opposite is true.



"By the way the word sin does not even exist in the secular world."

The popularity of the word in the "Modern" secular world doesn't take from the meaning of the word. By the way, you gave a fine definition "to refer to all the evil and wrong doing in the world."


"Yet, your perfect God who knows all things is blameless for being a dumb ass and creating a world he knew was bound to fail?All this tells me is that God is either very stupid or a creation of man."

You don't accept that God let man have at it in the world and this is the result (and it will only get worse). You are angry at God (whether you admit it or not) when you should be angry with your own nature. All that you see wrong in the world is a result of Man's decisions. God didn't make robots; He made humans with personality. Part of that personality is "will" and the condition of the world is a result of man's will.

Chatpilot said...

God is a creation of mans fertile imagination and only exists in his mind. As I stated before God is a reflection of man and all of his imperfections.

"You are angry at God (whether you admit it or not) when you should be angry with your own nature."

Nice one! But it makes as much sense as your doctrines and beliefs. No sense at all. How can I be angry at a being that I know does not exist? I am happy with my nature and enjoy it very much.

You enjoy wasting your life with your biblical blame game and keep making excuses for the incompetence of your imaginary god.

Chatpilot said...

Christians make me laugh when they degrade themselves; by voluntarily taking responsibility for the sins of the first couple who supposedly existed about 7,000 years ago.

You talk about your self and your species as if you have no self esteem. And you speak of your God as being good and just yet you don't question him or it as to why you are being blamed for something you did not do.

That is like my brother committing a crime and since the authorities couldn't find him they arrest me and send me to the chair in his stead. Now how just is that?

Steven Bently said...

JB..."Man couldn't have and wouldn't have created the God of the Bible. Man wouldn't create a God that would condemn him for his wrongs. Rather, man would have created a God that supports all the evil and sinful thoughts and actions that we do naturally; but the opposite is true."

No you're wrong again!

Man created a book to forgive him and blame all his evil doings on an invisible being and called it satan and then created a way for him to be forgiven.

Notice mostly men create most all havoc on earth, not women, yet men blame women for their evil doings especially against women. And the bible connects women with satan.

JB, you've got an awful lot to learn about what you pretend to believe as truth.

You've been brainwashed to believe the bible is true, but the brainwashed cannot see that they are brainwashed!!!

Chatpilot said...

The bible teaches that the fall of mankind was provoked by the serpent/Satan and then blames Eve for enticing Adam to follow her lead.

Women are denigrated all throughout the scriptures except in the case of a very small number of them. In fact the church fathers had a lot of things to say about women in general.

The bible teaches racism, sexism, espouses slavery, murder is fine if God authorizes it, etc. Read the O.T. in its entirety then come back and talk to me about how good your God is.

Steven Bently said...

Amen there Chat, I'd say neither JayBird, nor Corey has read Exodus or Deuteronomy in it's entirety and yet they claim to be preachers...ROTFLMAO!!!

It just goes to show that anyone can claim to be a preacher, no qualifications required, any idiot can claim to be a preacher...lol

JayBird said...

"No sense at all. How can I be angry at a being that I know does not exist?"

Simple, I believe you know He does exist, but you reject it. I notice you haven't created a blog to ridicule other things that you believe "don't exist".



"by voluntarily taking responsibility for the sins of the first couple"

Guilt isn't dependent upon a volunteering. It is inherited, remember the illustration of the child?, no one teaches a child to be selfish. Instead we try to break them of this nature.



"why you are being blamed for something you did not do."

But I have sinned, everyone has. Every told a lie?



"The bible teaches racism, sexism, espouses slavery, murder is fine if God authorizes it, etc.
Read the O.T. in its entirety then come back and talk to me about how good your God is."



As I said, you are angry AT God. Your point isn't that God doesn't exist; you haven't explained that God doesn't exist. All you have told me is why you don't like Him and Why you don't want Him to exist.

I think the answer is, You want to believe in something that makes you more comfortable.





Steven:

"Man created a book to forgive him and blame all his evil doings on an invisible being and called it satan"


Have you read the Bible? Man doesn't blame "all his evil doings on...satan" The Bible condemns each man individually (Colossians 3:25).

So again:

Man couldn't have and wouldn't have created the God of the Bible. Man wouldn't create a God that would condemn him for his wrongs. Rather, man would have created a God that supports all the evil and sinful thoughts and actions that we do naturally; but the opposite is true.




"JB, you've got an awful lot to learn about what you pretend to believe as truth."


Really? I'm still waiting a response to this:

I suggest you write a post explaining all of the information you have for the aliens, you believe in, that came here (did they create the Earth too?) and secretly planted human Deoxyribonucleic acid, that they have been cultivating in their "solar system". (Did they create their solar system? if not where did that come from?)

Chatpilot said...

Yet another issue I take offense to. Man is not inherently evil as your bible suggests. When you are a child you have to be taught the difference from right and wrong by your parents and the society in which you are raised. When you grow up you have the propensity to choose to do good or evil. And in some cases you don't such as mental disorders that prohibit you from seeing the difference such as people who suffer from personality disorders (mental illness).

I don't believe God exist because I see no need for one. There is nothing in the bible regarding mankind that we don't already know and in this day and age can even explain better. I don't write blogs about other things I don't believe in because those other things are not trying to force themselves into my life by trying to influence the laws where I live and manipulating politics the way that they do. That is the short of it.

Chatpilot said...

"I believe you know He does exist, but you reject it."

That is like the gay man or woman saying to the straight person: " I believe you're gay and you don't know it". You kill me sometimes JayBird

JayBird said...

"I don't believe God exist because I see no need for one."

Whether something exists doesn't depend on your need. I don't see a need for carnivals, and a lot of other things in life, but they still exist regardless of how I fell about them.


"Yet another issue I take offense to. Man is not inherently evil as your bible suggests."

People are born naturally doing wrong.



"When you are a child you have to be taught the difference from right and wrong by your parents and the society in which you are raised."


The standard of right and wrong is dependent on people and societies?
We know what right and wrong is because there is Absolute Truth. God has set a standard of what is right and wrong and most of these standards we still agree with even today.

Do you believe that truth is absolute?



"That is like the gay man or woman saying to the straight person: " I believe you're gay and you don't know it"."

Its not like that at all. You repeatedly tell me all of the reason why you don't like God. You don't tell me how He doesn't exist...you keep telling why you don't want Him to exist. And you told me, "because I see no need for one". That's why He doesn't exist?

Chatpilot said...

"We know what right and wrong is because there is Absolute Truth. God has set a standard of what is right and wrong and most of these standards we still agree with even today."

This just demonstrates how shallow you really are. Before your bible existed man had his idea of what was moral and what was not. Society dictates what you think is moral that is a known fact. If you are raised in a society where cannibalism is considered the norm then you would not have a problem with eating another human being.

And there is no such thing as absolute truth. Truth is determined by either known facts or the interpretation of those facts by individuals. There is no absolute truth in the bible.

Also, the onus on proving the existence of God is on you. I have nothing to prove since he does not exist. You are the one claiming absolute truth and that he exists therefore you must prove your case.

I can't say that I don't like God and I never said that, instead I said that he does not exist. And since I am convinced that he doesn't then I cannot like or dislike him.

No wonder Christians are stuck on stupid!

Steven Bently said...

Stuck on stupid!!! Exactly!!!

Christians/Muslims, you can't communicate with them, their thought pattern of reasoning has been destroyed and replaced with ancient nonsense in which they have been told is wisdom.

The Bible says that a god created the heavens and earth in just six days, but there was no human there to witness it being made, yet they believe everything was created in just six days, see how foolish the things are that they are led to believe???

It just amazes me to see how people are so willing to believe in such ridiculous stupid things!!

Like some god is going to reward you because of what you believe in your mind.

Or:

Some Arab jewish boy is going to send people to hell because they do not believe in him!!!

Does it get any more pathetic than that?

JayBird said...

"And there is no such thing as absolute truth."

But this is an absolute statement...



"I have nothing to prove since he does not exist."

Sure you do, you must prove that it is silly to believe in God...but you can't even give reasonable evidence that He doesn't exist...other than "because I see no need for one"


"I can't say that I don't like God and I never said that, instead I said that he does not exist."

The Only thing you have done is told me how you don't like what the Bible teaches about Him but zilch about how He doesn't exist.

Are you claiming He doesn't exist but you don't know why other than "because I see no need for one"?




Steven (my agnostic I.D believing friend):


"It just amazes me to see how people are so willing to believe in such ridiculous stupid things!!"


You have absolutely nothing to contribute to anything until you answer some of Your "ridiculous stupid things"

You can begin with this:

I suggest you write a post explaining all of the information you have for the aliens, you believe in, that came here (did they create the Earth too?) and secretly planted human Deoxyribonucleic acid, that they have been cultivating in their "solar system". (Did they create their solar system? if not where did that come from?)

Chatpilot said...

"you must prove that it is silly to believe in God...but you can't even give reasonable evidence that He doesn't exist..."

In philosophy there is a concept called the burden of proof according to wikipedia this is what it means: 'This burden of proof is often asymmetrical and typically falls more heavily on the party that makes either an ontologically positive claim, or makes a claim more "extraordinary",[4] that is farther removed from conventionally accepted facts.'

Based on this definition since you are the one making the positive claim that God exists the burden of proof falls more heavily upon you rather than on me.

Why is it silly to believe in God? Hmmm let's see; The god concept is an invention of man, it has been used to explain the unknown in mankinds infancy when the forces of nature were not yet understood, it is a superstition that has been passed down from generation to generation not based on facts but rather on faith. No one has ever seen God other than Moses and the bible conveniently has an answer for this in Exodus 33:20 20.And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Outside of the bible has anyone heard the voice of God as a voice of thunder speaking from the heavens? The answer is an emphatic no! Your entire belief system is based on myths and ancient superstitions.

Now I have a task for you my friend, prove to me as is your duty why God exists.

JayBird said...

"based on this definition since you are the one making the positive claim that God exists the burden of proof falls more heavily upon you rather than on me."

I understand the "burden of proof" philosophy and I also understand that it, as you said, fall on me.

However, before we move on I only want you to fully understand not only did you not have to prove God doesn't exist....you simply could not...you can't.

You simply don't want one, "because I see no need for one"?


"Now I have a task for you my friend, prove to me as is your duty why God exists."

You already know my proof for God's existence. Creation is evidence of a Creator. The complexity of our universe points to a Designer. God claims to be that Designer--(Steven understands this but he happens to believe it was aliens)... It also has Laws God claims to be that Lawmaker.
Life and the universe had a beginning and life comes from life. Also, Jesus Christ claimed to be God who is the designer (I'm sure you like this last one =).

Chatpilot said...

"Creation is evidence of a Creator. The complexity of our universe points to a Designer."

This argument has been thoroughly refuted, read 'The Greatest Show On Earth' by Dawkins and come back and talk to me later. I cannot prove that God does not exist because it is impossible to prove a negative.

I invite you to read my blog, you might actually learn something. http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

Chatpilot said...

One thing that you should realize is that when you use the first cause argument you have several monumental tasks before you. 1. You must prove that there is not an infinite regress of time 2. you must prove that there is a first cause 3. you must prove that this first cause exists 4. that this first cause is the God you worship 5. If everything has a first cause then where did God come from? Did he just pop into existence on a whim? The old he always was, is, and always will be wont cut it here. That is not an argument but rather it's question begging at its best.

JayBird said...

"One thing that you should realize is that when you use the first cause argument you have several monumental tasks before you."

This is the argument, we both begin with assumptions. The universe and life began; how it occurred begins with assumptions. It appears to me that as complex as life is it requires a Designer. This complexity in creation is evidence/proof for a Designer.

Chatpilot said...

"It appears to me that as complex as life is it requires a Designer. This complexity in creation is evidence/proof for a Designer."

Wow!! Now you have gone on to the god of the gaps theory. That is what I like to call the primitive thinking of your superstitious ancestors. We don't know how life began or how the universe came to be so instead of looking for a viable solution; God did it.

That then brings us to the question of which God did it since there are so many? And most of them predate Christianities deity by hundreds even thousands of years.

How do you account for the many flaws in the universe and nature itself? Stars dying out and exploding, comets and all sorts of collisions in space, not to mention the extinction of entire animal species. Based on those facts your God does not seem so intelligent.

The theory of evolution explains those and many other things more lucidly than any superstitious dogma or doctrine can.

I know you will probably say it is all due to sin, that God made it all perfect but that is begging the question, which is a fancy way of saying circular reasoning.

Corey Bishop said...

You guys make perfect sense now (Stephen and Chat). I've done some studying and ya'll make absolute perfect sense! It's all clear now.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs296.snc4/41158_149907308355928_100000099794501_462800_3097307_n.jpg

Chatpilot said...

Oh Corey your link does not work.

Corey Bishop said...

oh my bad, try now:

http://i36.tinypic.com/25k04uf.jpg

I think that's amazing. I'm glad ya'll showed me that!

Steven Bently said...

A creator god?

Whom created billions of galaxies with Suns which burn flawlessly from nuclear fuel for billions of years?

A god which created humans and animals, which all have blood that pumps all through their bodies as long as they live, with brains that control all thoughts and every body function?

A god which knows every atom and molecule function, that created millions of different sea creatures and each sea creature knows how build a home and to defend itself?

A god which created birds and taught them how to fly?

A god which created every planet and moons and stars?

The same god that created a evil being so that people would be under the influence of this evil being?

The same god that loves the smell of burning flesh and needs animal sacrifice to atone for sins from the influence of the evil being that he created?

The same god that sent his only begotten son to die as a sacrifice instead of animals to atone for sins from the influence of the evil being that he created?

The same god that concerns himself with a man's foreskin on his penis???

The same god that sent his only begotten son who also claims to be god to be killed for three days so he could go back and be with him???

Wasn't much of a sacrifice was it just dead for three days???

The same god who claims to be his only begotten son who prays to himself and then asks himself.."Why has thou forsaken me?", when he was himself to begin with???

Chatpilot said...

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000264019/polls_tadah_jesuscopy_1152_500792_answer_4_xlarge.jpeg

An appropriate response to your jpg Corey.

Corey Bishop said...

You know what the bad part about that is Chat? You guys have no idea what your talking about. You're not applying what really happened, you've twisted it. At least we go by what you REALLY say with my image.

Corey Bishop said...

Apparently, you know what I am talking about, because you are being awfully quiet. I guess that means you forfeit...because you got nothing. Not that you ever did to start with.

JayBird said...

Steven (my I.D. believing buddy):

You have absolutely nothing to contribute to anything until you answer this:

I suggest you write a post explaining all of the information you have for the aliens, you believe in, that came here (did they create the Earth too?) and secretly planted human Deoxyribonucleic acid, that they have been cultivating in their "solar system". (Did they create their solar system? if not where did that come from?)



Chat:

"And there is no such thing as absolute truth"

Is this absolutely true? Is this an opinion? The Bible teaches that God's moral law is the 10 Commandments. You probably agree with most of them except those which mention God. God is the Lawmaker.

Chatpilot said...

"You know what the bad part about that is Chat? You guys have no idea what your talking about."

Nothing could be further from the truth. Corey I base myself on what I understand to be scientific facts, while you base yourself on faith. My views on evolution have been proven and are observable and many experiments regarding evolution can be repeatable in a lab. Although we don't have a clear picture on how life began it does not make the idea of evolution less viable since evolution is not a theory on origins. I was silent because I did not see your post until today. I would never forfeit to something as absurd as faith.

"The Bible teaches that God's moral law is the 10 Commandments."

JayBird those commandments should be modified to thou shalt not kill unless I say it's okay. Gods commandments are far from absolute anyone could have come up with them based on common sense and for the greater good and survival of a society.

Steven Bently said...

To Corehead,

What I have found is it's not hardly worth my time signing in to my blog to argue with religious fanatics!

--------------------------------

To Jaybutt

As I have stated many times, the odds of alien life in outer space is 125 billion to one odds chance that aliens exist, as opposed to your zero to 1 odds that your jesus ever existed or that jesus was a son of a god!


Now do you still believe a god wants his disciples to eat his son's body????

John 6:53-58

Why do neither of you address this pile of shit scripture???

John 6:53-58

Corey Bishop said...

Chat, your right, I see it now. It all makes perfect sense. You did evolve from a monkey, which evolved from a bird, which evolved from a dog, which evolved from a dinosaur, which evolved from an amoeba, which evolved from one little atom exploding...didn't you? What a joke.... the chances of that happening are older than your version this whole theory's age period....

Proverbs says not to lean on to your own understanding.... that's where you failed. Because man's ways are wrong by nature. Speaking of nature, doth not nature teach you itself that there is a God?

Chatpilot said...

That is why a belief in God requires you to put your brain on hold Corey. God did it, makes alot of sense, some guy sitting on a golden throne watching you fuck, masturbate, beat your wife, suck dick etc. what bullshit.

Get your head out of your ass and learn to use your brain. This is nothing more than primitive thinking from a more ignorant age which you apparently seem to be stuck in.

"Chat, your right, I see it now. It all makes perfect sense. You did evolve from a monkey, which evolved from a bird, which evolved from a dog, which evolved from a dinosaur, which evolved from an amoeba, which evolved from one little atom exploding...didn't you?"

This tells me that you don't know shit about evolution you dumb ass. Evolution does not teach that we evolved from apes but rather that we share a common ancestor.

JayBird said...

"Why do neither of you address this pile of shit scripture???"

I've never said anything about this passage; you're using a Catholic doctrine and trying to force it on me...



"Now do you still believe a god wants his disciples to eat his son's body????...John 6:53-58"


This is what you've "heard" this passage means. You think this has something to do with communion I bet. But don't you know that the Last Supper doesn't occur until chapter 13, over a year later.
In 6:63 Jesus says that "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing". He must be talking about something different... What do you think it is? Leviticus 17:10-11 teaches that cannibalism is forbidden.
Your stumped aren't you? Do you know why? It is because you do not even have a basic understanding of the Bible. You are trying to simply toss around verses that you've seen Atheists use in the past (remember you're not an Atheist). You don't understand the verses, the chapter, nor the book it came from.




"As I have stated many times, the odds of alien life in outer space is 125 billion to one odds chance that aliens exist, as opposed to your zero to 1 odds that your jesus ever existed or that jesus was a son of a god!"


125 billion to one....but you still believe this? Let's review what you said:
"I have already told you that I know how people and animals got here, the DNA was all transported here by aliens from another planet"

Really?

"125 billion"...this is about how many people disagree with you.

No problem my I.D. believing buddy. Just answer a few simple questions to tell us how you came to this unlikely conclusion. You can begin with these:


"I suggest you write a post explaining all of the information you have for the aliens, you believe in, that came here (did they create the Earth too?) and secretly planted human Deoxyribonucleic acid, that they have been cultivating in their "solar system". (Did they create their solar system? if not where did that come from?)"



"My views on evolution have been proven and are observable and many experiments regarding evolution can be repeatable in a lab"

Negative. Evolution require faith also and is based on assumptions as much as Creationism. A fruit fly will always be a fruit fly...


"Although we don't have a clear picture on how life began it does not make the idea of evolution less viable since evolution is not a theory on origins."

True, the one thing Darwin never included in the "Origin of Species" was the Origin...

Tell him Steven; we don't believe this junk... =)

Corey Bishop said...

Actually Chat, I have studied all that. I was just mocking it. If you had a brain, or common sense for that matter, you would see that.

Believe it or not, you do have to study the Bible to do more than just believe "some God created everything". Ever heard of the Genesis Gap? Ever heard of dispensationalism? You have to study time periods...I've done my homework on all this. Otherwise I wouldn't believe it. The Bible says also that everyone knows there is a God at one point in time. It doesn't say think, it says they KNOW there is a God. That means that at one time or another, you have known there is a God. Why is it that you have to be "educated" out of believing in God? Like you have to be convinced....that's so stupid.

Steven Bently said...

"The Bible says also that everyone knows there is a God at one point in time."

Then why the need for a book(bible), then why the need for a church, then why the need for a preacher????

If everyone knows about a god, then why waste your time trying to convince people a god exists?

Your thesis fails!

---------------------------------


As soon as we can travel to another galaxy I'll show you an Alien...dumb-ass!

Anytime you practice communion, which every baptists does, you are pretending to eat jesus' body...dumb-ass!


I think we've both read enough of your stupid ignorant shit!

Now go chew on jesus' ass...you dumb-ass jerks!

Steven Bently said...

Gaybutt said,

"You are trying to simply toss around verses that you've seen Atheists use in the past"

John 6:53?????


Was John an atheist? More than likely!!!

Chatpilot said...

"Ever heard of the Genesis Gap? Ever heard of dispensationalism?"

The answer to both those questions is yes. I have studied the so called dispensations. The O.T. is supposedly under the dispensation of the law while the N.T. under the new covenant created by God sacrificing his son or himself in this case is under the dispensation of grace. I am not sure what you mean about the Genesis gap I have studied a gap theory between verse one and two where some have said that it implies that there is an indeterminate amount of time that has passed which could be thousands even millions of years. The church has used this defense against the implication that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Do you believe in a young Earth about 6 or 7,000 years old Corey and Jay?

I've studied your bible enough to know that it is utter bullshit. I like that you quoted the scripture about not leaning unto your own understanding. The bible constantly tells you to put your brain on hold. Don't try and figure it out just believe it by faith.

Science has put the bible to shame on so many fronts that the believers have had to constantly readjust their theology to conform to scientific findings. Science has never had to do anything to confirm to doctrines and theology.

JayBird said...

As soon as we can travel to another galaxy I'll show you an Alien...dumb-ass!

Boy, You have more Faith than I do! I like that about you...my I.D. friend =)



Anytime you practice communion, which every baptists does, you are pretending to eat jesus' body...dumb-ass!

Nope. Again, you don't even have a basic understanding of the Bible. Baptist doctrine doesn't agree with you.
You stole this argument from another Atheist and you can't support it. John 6 had nothing to do with Communion. There is no bread and wine in John 6 and no communion there. You lose...


"Science has put the bible to shame on so many fronts that the believers have had to constantly readjust their theology to conform to scientific findings."

What? Where have we adjusted our theology to conform to Science? One thing is for sure, living things always come from living things...every time.

Man and science is extremely limited. When someone dies, everything that is needed for life is right there...but science can't keep people alive...10 out of 10 people die. Man is not the master of his own life.

Chatpilot said...

"Science has put the bible to shame on so many fronts that the believers have had to constantly readjust their theology to conform to scientific findings."

Let's see; there is the whole sun revolves around the Earth belief, the Earth is around 7,000 years old, the Earth is flat, the origins of language are surely not derived from the tower of babel, the moon is not a light in the sky for the night as it states in Genesis it is actually reflecting he light of the sun off of its surface. The list goes on and on my friend science trumps religion every time.

Steven Bently said...

What do you think the wafers represent, ya dumbass? Jesus' body and the wine, his friggin blood, ya dumbass!!!

JayBird said...

None of these you presented have anything to do with theological doctrine (Zero).

"Let's see; there is the whole sun revolves around the Earth belief"

The Bible never states that the Sun revolves around the Earth. No more than modern Scientists and Meteorologists still use the word "Sunrise" to refer to the morning and "Sunset" to refer to the evening; when we speak about these things we do it from our human perspective. Even you use these terms when you know 100% that they are scientifically inaccurate...why do you still do it?


"the Earth is around 7,000 years old"

Evolution assumes an Old Earth and is dependent upon it. The evidence for an Old Earth is based on assumptions as much as Creationist base a Young Earth on assumptions; no different. Again, No theology has changed here....none.



"the Earth is flat"

The Bible doesn't claim this. In fact:

2800 years ago, when the shape of the earth was unknown or thought to be flat Isaiah wrote that the Earth was the Circular in shape.
Isaiah 40:22 “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.”

Even Christopher Columbus new the Bible taught the Earth was round:

-Christopher Columbus said that it was the Scriptures that inspired him to sail around the world. He wrote, “It was the Lord who put it into my mind. I could feel His hand upon me…”

Again, No theology has changed here....none.



"the origins of language are surely not derived from the tower of babel,"

Sure it did. Also, if man evolved and began communication with "grunts" and "pointing" like the primates why are the earlier languages the most complex? In fact, English is one of the newest languages and is one of the simplest and easiest that exist. Compare English to ancient Chinese.

Again, No theology has changed here....none. (seeing a trend?).


"the moon is not a light in the sky for the night as it states in Genesis it is actually reflecting he light of the sun off of its surface."

Who cares if it is reflecting? the Bible doesn't differentiate. The moon is still the light in the sky at night and that is all that Genesis teaches. You're really stretching here...

Again, No theology has changed here....none.



"The list goes on and on"

It does? But you haven't shown me a theological change yet?... Actually it is quite the opposite:

The Bible has been correct with Science even before it could be examined scientifically:

The Earth hangs on Nothing

3800 years ago when the Earth was thought to be sat on columns or on animals, like on the back of a turtle, the book of Job mentions that the Earth hangs on nothing.

Job 26:7 “He stretches out the north over empty space and Hangs the earth on nothing.”

How ever could a farmer know this without the inspiration of God?

There are many more....




To Steffane,

"What do you think the wafers represent, ya dumbass?"

Represent? Do you mean a symbol? Kind of like a reminder? I agree that it "Represents". Thanks for the clarification. My I.D. partner =)

JayBird said...

None of these you presented have anything to do with theological doctrine (Zero).

"Let's see; there is the whole sun revolves around the Earth belief"

The Bible never states that the Sun revolves around the Earth. No more than modern Scientists and Meteorologists still use the word "Sunrise" to refer to the morning and "Sunset" to refer to the evening; when we speak about these things we do it from our human perspective. Even you use these terms when you know 100% that they are scientifically inaccurate...why do you still do it?


"the Earth is around 7,000 years old"

Evolution assumes an Old Earth and is dependent upon it. The evidence for an Old Earth is based on assumptions as much as Creationist base a Young Earth on assumptions; no different. Again, No theology has changed here....none.



"the Earth is flat"

The Bible doesn't claim this. In fact:

2800 years ago, when the shape of the earth was unknown or thought to be flat Isaiah wrote that the Earth was the Circular in shape.
Isaiah 40:22 “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.”

Even Christopher Columbus new the Bible taught the Earth was round:

-Christopher Columbus said that it was the Scriptures that inspired him to sail around the world. He wrote, “It was the Lord who put it into my mind. I could feel His hand upon me…”

Again, No theology has changed here....none.



"the origins of language are surely not derived from the tower of babel,"

Sure it did. Also, if man evolved and began communication with "grunts" and "pointing" like the primates why are the earlier languages the most complex? In fact, English is one of the newest languages and is one of the simplest and easiest that exist. Compare English to ancient Chinese.

Again, No theology has changed here....none. (seeing a trend?).


"the moon is not a light in the sky for the night as it states in Genesis it is actually reflecting he light of the sun off of its surface."

Who cares if it is reflecting? the Bible doesn't differentiate. The moon is still the light in the sky at night and that is all that Genesis teaches. You're really stretching here...

Again, No theology has changed here....none.



"The list goes on and on"

It does? But you haven't shown me a theological change yet?... Actually it is quite the opposite:

The Bible has been correct with Science even before it could be examined scientifically:

The Earth hangs on Nothing

3800 years ago when the Earth was thought to be sat on columns or on animals, like on the back of a turtle, the book of Job mentions that the Earth hangs on nothing.

Job 26:7 “He stretches out the north over empty space and Hangs the earth on nothing.”

How ever could a farmer know this without the inspiration of God?

There are many more....




To Steffane,

"What do you think the wafers represent, ya dumbass?"

Represent? Do you mean a symbol? Kind of like a reminder? I agree that it "Represents". Thanks for the clarification. My I.D. partner =)

Chatpilot said...

Regarding the flat Earth beliefs of the ancients here is one making reference to the Hebrew bible from wikipedia. The Hebrew Bible carried forward the ancient Middle Eastern cosmology, such as in the Enuma Elish, which described a flat earth with a solid roof, surrounded by water above and below,[10][11] as illustrated by references to the "foundations of the earth" and the "circle of the earth" in the following examples:

* "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Isaiah 40:22, see also Isaiah 44:24-28;Genesis 1:10,16-18; Psalms 136:7-9; Proverbs 8:27; Luke 4:5.[12]
* "For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world." 1 Samuel 2:8; see also Job 38:4-6; Psalm 93:1

Stating that the Earth is a circle as described in the text does not mean that its round in the sense of a spheroid. It implies that it is round as a circle is round and flat.

The sun orbiting around the Earth is implied in Joshua, come on use your critical thinking skills. Joshua 10:13 '13.And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.' Of course from the perspective of someone looking up with no knowledge of astronomy the sun appears to be moving. From sunrise to sunset it crosses the Earth. Of course you can't feel the Earth moving in its orbit so it would not be illogical to believe that the sun goes round the Earth. It's a matter of interpretation.

Chatpilot said...

"The Bible never states that the Sun revolves around the Earth."

The bible never states that there is a trinity but it implies it in the same sense that the sun revolving around the Earth is implied.

Chatpilot said...

"Sure it did. Also, if man evolved and began communication with "grunts" and "pointing" like the primates why are the earlier languages the most complex?"

Here you have clearly demonstrated what I like to refer to as ass backward thinking; which is a common trait among believers. The goal of languages is to make communication simpler. So it would make sense that some of the earlier languages are more complex. There are African dialects that are still used today that require sounds and clicking noises.

As communication methods improved it is expected that man would develop languages that are both simpler and more efficient to teach and learn.

JayBird said...

"Stating that the Earth is a circle as described in the text does not mean that its round in the sense of a spheroid. It implies that it is round as a circle is round and flat."

I doesn't mean that it is flat, and thus Christopher Columbus agrees with the Bible and then he proved it...sorry...


"The sun orbiting around the Earth is implied in Joshua"

I'm sorry, you need it to say that. Joshua was writing from his human perspective. It doesn't imply that the Bible is scientifically wrong. Do you ridicule Meteorologists every morning?


"The bible never states that there is a trinity but it implies it in the same sense that the sun revolving around the Earth is implied."

The Bible doesn't use the word "Trinity" to explain the Trinity. The Bible isn't a science book. It doesn't teach imply anything about the sun revolving. It is written from the authors perspective. We do the same everyday at 7:15 for the local weather...are they implying the sun revolves around the earth?


"The goal of languages is to make communication simpler."

Negative, the goal of language is to make it more descriptive, this is why we add hundreds of new words a year to English.


"here are African dialects that are still used today that require sounds and clicking noises."

are you telling me this is simple? can you do this? Some say that these tribes are the oldest cultures that remain today.



Again, you've failed to show a theological or doctrinal change as you've claimed... Actually it is quite the opposite:

The Bible has been correct with Science even before it could be examined scientifically:

The Earth hangs on Nothing

3800 years ago when the Earth was thought to be sat on columns or on animals, like on the back of a turtle, the book of Job mentions that the Earth hangs on nothing.

Job 26:7 “He stretches out the north over empty space and Hangs the earth on nothing.”

How ever could a farmer know this without the inspiration of God?

Chatpilot said...

It's okay Jay I see that trying to explain things to you leads only to more circular reasoning and explanation. Do some research on your own is not biased by your bullshit views about God and theology.

It's hard to think outside of the box of superstition so I comprehend your inability to comprehend. Also, to state that the sun stood and the moon stood still implies that they were in motion. Even if this fairy tale were true it would be mean the destruction of the Earth as we know it. For the sun not to "set" and the moon not to "rise" would mean that the Earth would have to stop spinning on its axis and on its orbital path for hours.

I know you think that there is nothing impossible for God but your own bible refutes this claim. Judges 1:19 19.And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

I checked various translations of this text and some claim that it was Judah that could not drive out the inhabitants of the land but either way it states that the Lord was with them and even with his help they still could not drive out the inhabitants of that land. Could iron be God's Kryptonite?

JayBird said...

"It's okay Jay I see that trying to explain things to you leads only to more circular reasoning and explanation."


Again, you've failed to show a theological or doctrinal change as you've claimed...it appears you're finished here....



"Also, to state that the sun stood and the moon stood still implies that they were in motion."

I'm just glad i'm not a Meteorologist.... We use the exact same phrases today. What don't you understand. "tomorrow, when the sun comes up", "the sunrise will be 6:45 AM". You will not apply this to your own "scientific mistakes"...yet you tag it on someone else. You're simply a hypocrite.



"Judges 1:19 19.And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

Who won these battles? Did the Tribe of Judah lose? Were they defeated? Of course not. They put the Canaanites into forced labor (Judges 1:28). Did they win all they hoped...no, they captured the land but didn't conquer it completely.

If you read the story (which you didn't) you would know that Judah was deathly afraid of the Canaanites. If you read the story you would know it is in detail in Joshua 17. Judah was whining and complaining for more land and Joshua said, "IF you are a numerous people....clear a place for yourself" (vs. 15) They responded in fear (vs 16). The were afraid and didn't trust God. They won the war but didn't completely conquer the land as they were ordered.



"The list goes on and on my friend science trumps religion every time."


Uhhh...yea:(check this out)


The Stars are Innumerable

In 150 B.C. Greek astronomer, Hipparchus declared that there are exactly 1,026 stars, and even several hundred years ago, it was thought that there were only about 6000 stars.

The Bible, incredibly, stated 3500 years ago, when there were no telescopes, that the stars were innumerable and unable to be counted. Today’s technology agrees with the Bible, that the stars are truly unable to be counted.

Genesis 15:5 “And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

Jeremiah 33:22 “As the host of heaven cannot be counted and the sand of the sea cannot be measured, so I will multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”


What a powerful Creator we have =)

Chatpilot said...

What a stupid ass example! You don't need divine revelation to know this, one look up at a clear night sky will confirm this for anyone without a telescope.

I love the way Christians like yourself Jay keep asking me to show you how theology has changed to accommodate scientific discoveries. That would take forever, there are plenty of books that illustrate the inconsistencies of the bible with science. Do the research man don't ask me to put it all out on a platter for you so you can come and then reinterpret it the way you feel it should be. What you are doing is called apologetics and in my opinion it is appropriately named. Trying to twist your bibles texts to fit into a modern age just like the so called prophecies of the bible are twisted to be the fulfillment of known current events.

JayBird said...

"What a stupid ass example! You don't need divine revelation to know this, one look up at a clear night sky will confirm this for anyone without a telescope."


I agree, looking up into the sky would be enough. But at one time science thought is had the answer to this, but the Bible was correct all the long.


"I love the way Christians like yourself Jay keep asking me to show you how theology has changed to accommodate scientific discoveries. That would take forever,"

Oh...okay...

It would take me "forever" to tell you about how Evolution is unproven....but go check it out yourself.

"Do the research man don't ask me to put it all out on a platter for you so you can come and then reinterpret it the way you feel it should be."

I haven't twisted anything; I plainly explained it as anyone can read it. You taking 1 or 2 verses out of a story and its context doesn't work for you so you respond to my explanation by saying that I "twist".


There are no Theological changes because of Science. A theological change would be to say that God didn't create life...it was happen-chance. That would be a theological change.

Chatpilot said...

"It would take me "forever" to tell you about how Evolution is unproven....but go check it out yourself."

Good luck with that endeavor, I have checked it out and I have come to the conclusion that the theory of evolution is more viable than the superstitious belief that there is an imaginary guy in the sky.

The complexity of creation and life does not automatically assert that there is a creator. As I have said before there is alot of chaos in the universe and in nature that say otherwise.

Many have tried to disprove evolution and continue to do so to this day, but the fact is that evolution is a scientific fact that is widely accepted by most scientist.

'Nowadays, the fact that organisms evolve is uncontested in the scientific literature and the modern evolutionary synthesis is widely accepted by scientists. However, evolution remains a contentious concept for some theists.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Social_and_cultural_responses

The above is an excerpt from an article on wiki, and apparently the only ones that have problems with evolution are theists.

Chatpilot said...

Seriously Jay and Corey if you are interested in knowing more about evolution and the evidence for it then I know of a video series on you tube that might be able to help you understand it better and puts it into perspective better than I could ever hope to. Go to you tube and in the search window type in 'Discovering Religion' It spans several episodes but it is an excellent series on the subject matter.

Steven Bently said...

"Even Christopher Columbus new the Bible taught the Earth was round:"

Most people thought the earth was flat, even C.C.

-Christopher Columbus said that it was the Scriptures that inspired him to sail around the world. He wrote, “It was the Lord who put it into my mind. I could feel His hand upon me…”


Well as usual JayButt, you are wrong again! Christopher Columbus set out looking for the West Indies, he was not on a mission from god to find a new land to proselytize to the infidel savages! That's the reason he called the indigenous people 'Indians'

He wasn't looking for America, it was already discovered by real human beings, yet he coined them infidel savages, and Christianity has murderous blood on it's hands because the Christians killed and murdered most of them and stole their own land, why do you happen to think that Indians get special privileges that the white-man is not allowed to have...duuh??? It's because of the inhumane treatment that was done to them by the Christian white-man.


And your blow-job was talking about sitting upon a flat disk, you don't go to the top of a hill and say I'm setting upon the circle of the earth, But I'm sure you would.

You can't defend your buybull-shit, piece of trash.

As you go back in time, knowledge decreases, as you go forward in time, knowledge increases, but you would prefer to live back in time so you could endorse buybull, but you can't, so you have to live with advanced scientific knowledge in which you refuse to acknowledge, which is the way a typical brainwashed christian is taught to think.

You reject scientific knowledge, just as the people who wrote the buybull, also rejected scientific knowledge.

Now go and keep pretending to eat your dead jebus carcass!

JayBird said...

"The complexity of creation and life does not automatically assert that there is a creator."

You wouldn't say that about anything else with high complexity and not nearly as important.



"but the fact is that evolution is a scientific fact"

No sir, its still a theory as is Creationism. Both are completely based on assumptions.



"'Nowadays, the fact that organisms evolve is uncontested in the scientific literature"

I agree "in the scientific literature" but nothing evolves (macro) in reality; only in literature.


"However, evolution remains a contentious concept for some theists."

Theistic Evolution is unfounded in Scripture. The Bible doesn't even hint of evolution.



Steven:

I don't know why you bother to ever say anything....really. You are never correct about anything.

You claim crap about Aliens and then avoid explaining it.


You tell me: "You reject scientific knowledge, just as the people who wrote the buybull, also rejected scientific knowledge."

Yet you YOURSELF refuse Evolution also! Are you brain dead?
I don't reject Scientific knowledge; I reject the way that Evolutionist interpret the evidence. SO DO YOU!!

Hypocrite....


And then:

"Most people thought the earth was flat, even C.C."

No they Didn't (You are never correct!)


Look at this article: (don't worry it isn't Christian)

"The fact that the Earth is round was evident to most people of Columbus' time, especially to sailors, explorers and navigators. Indeed, Eratosthenes (276-194 BCE) had already, in ancient Alexandrian times, accurately calculated the Earth's circumference. Most scholars accepted Ptolemy's claim that the terrestrial landmass (for Europeans of the time, comprising Eurasia and Africa) occupied 180 degrees of the terrestrial sphere, leaving 180 degrees of water."
"Most European sailors and navigators concluded, correctly, that sailors undertaking a westward voyage from Europe to Asia would die of starvation or thirst long before reaching their destination.
Those experts were right, but Spain, only recently unified through the marriage of Ferdinand and Isabella, and just Christianized through the expulsion of the Muslims and Jews, was desperate for a competitive edge over other European countries, in trade with the East Indies. Columbus promised them that edge.
Columbus was wrong about the circumference of the Earth and the distance from the Canary Islands to Japan. But most Europeans were wrong in thinking that the aquatic expanse between Europe and Asia was uninterrupted. Although Columbus died believing he had opened up a direct nautical route to Asia, in fact, he established a nautical route between Europe and the Americas. It was this route to the Americas, rather than to Japan, that gave Spain the competitive edge it sought in developing a mercantile empire.
By his third voyage, in 1498, Columbus had come to the conclusion that the Earth was pear-shaped:"

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus


You wrongly assume that "everyone" thought the earth was flat.

As I showed you the Bible claims that the Earth was the Circular in shape (Isaiah 40:22) and Hangs on Nothing (Job 26:7) “He stretches out the north over empty space and Hangs the earth on nothing.”

How ever could a farmer know this without the inspiration of God?

Chatpilot said...

Once again you were wrong about the flat Earth beliefs described in the bible. Apparently by the time Christianity made its appearance it was accepted that the Earth was round (spheroid) But that was not the case with the Hebrew bible.

The Hebrew Bible carried forward the ancient Middle Eastern cosmology, such as in the Enuma Elish, which described a flat earth with a solid roof, surrounded by water above and below,[10][11] as illustrated by references to the "foundations of the earth" and the "circle of the earth" in the following examples:

* "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Isaiah 40:22, see also Isaiah 44:24-28;Genesis 1:10,16-18; Psalms 136:7-9; Proverbs 8:27; Luke 4:5.[12]
* "For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world." 1 Samuel 2:8; see also Job 38:4-6; Psalm 93:1
Read it for yourself at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

"Theistic Evolution is unfounded in Scripture. The Bible doesn't even hint of evolution."

That's because your goat herders didn't have the scientific knowledge to describe much less interpret what was obvious; that all living organisms evolved from simpler life forms.

"I agree "in the scientific literature" but nothing evolves (macro) in reality"

The only thing that doesn't evolve in reality is the mind of a Christian. Adaptation is evident everywhere and adaptation is evolution. Damn, you should study the subject matter from its sources rather than from religious ID proponents who know nothing about evolution or science for that matter. All they know is how to twist the findings to suit their beliefs as you are doing here.

Also, in scientific circles when they say that something is a theory it is not meant as a theory in the way the word is used in everyday speech.

In the sciences, a scientific theory (also called an empirical theory) comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

JayBird said...

"The Hebrew Bible carried forward the ancient Middle Eastern cosmology, such as in the Enuma Elish"

This is your assumption you are hanging your hope on this.

The word "circle" in Isaiah 40:22, in Hebrew is "chuwg" it is the closest possible Hebrew word for sphere or circle with 3 dimensions. That is the way it is implied here and also Proverbs 8:27, and Job 26:10.


"That's because your goat herders didn't have the scientific knowledge to describe much less interpret what was obvious; that all living organisms evolved from simpler life forms."

It is obvious that something so complex doesn't evolve by accident. It is absolutely absurd and impossible that a painting would occur without a Painter...(you agree with this logic don't you?)
These goat herders had more common logic than you do....



"Adaptation is evident everywhere and adaptation is evolution."

Another wild assumption....I know you probably read that over and over.




"A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena."

That's great, but on that note Evolution is a Historical science rather than a Empirical science. Tests cannot be conducted in a lab repeatedly for the evolution of species, say evolution of man. If this is something that happened back in history than this science is based upon evidences that remain from these occurrences.
Ernst Mayr (one of your leading Evolutionists) once said,

"“Evolution is a historical process that cannot be proven by the same arguments and methods by which purely physical or functional phenomena can be documented.”

A forensic lab cannot use Empirical science on a crime scene because they cannot recreate that crime. They must use Historical science and study the evidence to see "what happened". Evolutionist often blurr these sciences and especially the wording of them. This is why it is all based on assumptions. We are trying to assume what happened based on the historical evidences.

Evolutionists quickly want to yell "proven" but it doesn't work that way when we are assuming many things.

You assume that common traits imply a common ancestor. I assume that common traits imply a common Creator. The amazing and all-powerful God of the Universe who gives life and saves. =)

Chatpilot said...

Typical theistic thinking, you are as I have stated before nothing more than a slave to superstition. You are literally incapable of thinking rationally since you are hindered by your own absurd beliefs and mindset.

I used to be like you once so I understand that it takes alot to break out of that vicious and mentally debilitating cycle.

"It is absolutely absurd and impossible that a painting would occur without a Painter...(you agree with this logic don't you?)"

I do agree, but you cannot compare something man made with something that has evolved in nature. It's like comparing apples to oranges it just doesn't work.

Just watch the video series I recommended for you and then come back and talk to me about evolution, because so far all you have proven to me is that your ignorance is so great that it could probably outshine the sun at this point.

Since you are too lazy or scared to do so I even got you the link to part one to start you off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ633MgjEqA

Now go get educated! Learn about scientific methodology and language before you run your mouth about things you know nothing about.

I see you have no qualms with science when it comes to the computer you are posting with, or using your cell, or any other modern technological wonder that we have at our disposal today.

JayBird said...

"I do agree, but you cannot compare something man made with something that has evolved in nature. It's like comparing apples to oranges it just doesn't work."

But they both contain complex information (one much more so than the other). But the lesser of the two, you would never (ever, ever) doubt requires someone with personality?


"Just watch the video series I recommended for you and then come back and talk to me about evolution, because so far all you have proven to me is that your ignorance"

I think I backed up Ernst Myer (one of your leading Evolutionists) pretty well. Do you disagree with him? You can if you want....


"Since you are too lazy or scared to do so..."

Why do you act like I've never had a lesson in Evolution? Do you think I had a choice to avoid it in High School and College? I have news for you, it is force fed to everyone. I think I understand the philosophy of it better than the average. It is a Historical Science (as is Creationism) which is based on assumptions and evidence.




"I see you have no qualms with science when it comes to the computer you are posting with, or using your cell, or any other modern technological wonder that we have at our disposal today."


Of course not, I don't have qualms with science. I'm not afraid of it; humans have advanced because of it in almost every way possible. Christians are also involved in scientific research and it doesn't make things work any less. The MRI was invented by a Creationist and it works just as well as if anyone with any other belief made it.

We differ in the interpretation of evidence on the origins, not about whether science is valuable.

Are you familiar with Irreducible Complexity?

Chatpilot said...

"Are you familiar with Irreducible Complexity?"

Of course I am that principle was invented by Michael Behe I admit I had to cheat since I did not remember who put that theory out since it's been awhile since I read refutations of it. It basically states that and I quote the author: Michael Behe, the originator of the term irreducible complexity, defines an irreducibly complex system as one "composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning".

Wiki states the following and I have read several books that state in effect the same thing and I tend to agree.
'These examples are said to demonstrate that modern biological forms could not have evolved naturally. Evolutionary biologists have shown that such systems can in fact evolve,[6] and Behe's examples are considered to constitute an argument from ignorance.'

Irreducible complexity is even considered pseudo-science and is not even accepted by Behe's own peers and the scientific community in general.

Chatpilot said...

Our own bodies are a testament to the facts of evolution. We have vestigial organs and appendages that no longer serve any purpose and even certain genes within our dna have been deactivated and lay dormant.

One of my favorite Darwin quotes is the following:

"We must, however, acknowledge, as it seems to me, that man with all his noble qualities... still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin."

This magnificent pile of shit destroyed by the god of lightning!!!

This magnificent pile of shit destroyed by the god of lightning!!!
Big Butter Jesus, Destroyed!! In the twinkling of an eye....LOL

Divine Justice?

Divine Justice?
Jebus is in hell...!

This eyesore off of I-75 in Ohio finally gone, Praise Tha Friggin Lord...LOL

This eyesore off of I-75 in Ohio finally gone, Praise Tha Friggin Lord...LOL
Ahh... that looks much better! Thank You!, Thank You!, Jeebus!..LOL